Sets & reps?

[wallyd]

Most of us on her are getting to the point we are considered “seasoned” (sounds better than old). I’m just curious if you guys lean more toward volume training of fewer total sets but keeping the weight as heavy as you can with good form. Also how often are you honestly going to positive failure? I’ve been doing the volume thing for awhile but I feel like I’ve gone stale with it. I usually try to get to positive failure on most sets while still having good form.

I bring this up because I just saw a video where Sam Sulek was discussing this & said he was going to do 5 sets for back. I took it as he meant 5 total sets & he added that he felt like the volume game wasn’t really working for him.

I don’t follow him or think he is the best coach by any means but it did make me think a little. I always used to pyramid everything.

 

[1bigun11]

Sometimes I will switch up and do a Mike Mentzer/Dorian Yates high intensity type program. But for the most part these days I am doing like 20 total sets per workout, about 10 reps per set, adding weight each set, and really only hitting positive failure on the last set per exercise. Much easier on my old joints, and I get good pumps with it.

 

[BigTex]

Most of us on her are getting to the point we are considered “seasoned” (sounds better than old). I’m just curious if you guys lean more toward volume training of fewer total sets but keeping the weight as heavy as you can with good form. Also how often are you honestly going to positive failure? I’ve been doing the volume thing for awhile but I feel like I’ve gone stale with it. I usually try to get to positive failure on most sets while still having good form.

I bring this up because I just saw a video where Sam Sulek was discussing this & said he was going to do 5 sets for back. I took it as he meant 5 total sets & he added that he felt like the volume game wasn’t really working for him.

I don’t follow him or think he is the best coach by any means but it did make me think a little. I always used to pyramid everything.

I am 68 and have had to switch to high volume for quite a while. I do a minimum of 10-15 sets per muscle group and stick to 10 reps. Works good for me but understandably we are all different and may respond differently.

 

[liftsiron]

I am also 68 and have for a time been doing volume. I still do a split routine but do a good deal of sets for each body part. I start light with a couple sets of 20 or more reps then gradually increase weight until I hit the 9-10 rep range for a few sets. I always thought guys who say that they do five sets per body part are either lazy or more likely liars like Mike Menzer.

 

[wallyd]

I’m usually in the 12-20 set range depending on the size of muscle being worked. I will probably go back to pyramiding the weight until I’m at maybe 6 reps but definitely no lower than that. Sounds like we all have the same idea. The Yates/Mentzer plan just seems like an injury waiting to happen imo.

 

[Dawgpound_Hank]

Sam Sulek only films his WORK SETS - he meant 5 work sets, not including warm-ups. I mean you don't think the guy just jumps in and benches 405 for reps from jump right haha?

I myself for the most part have trained HIT for decades now. The number of sets is sooo misleading when individuals post their sets bcoz some guys post ALL sets, including warm-ups, whereas some, like me, or Sam, only post work sets. I see no point of including warm-ups when discussing bcoz those don't build muscle. Example of my chest day, to illustrate how deceiving TOTAL sets vs WORK SETS can be when discussing:

Work sets indicated by an *, all others are warm-up/feel-sets:

1 - flat db press - 50's x 20, 75's x 12, 100's x 6, 120's x 12*, 130's x 8-10*
2 - incline db press - 80's x 6, 100's x 12*, 110's x 8-10*
3 - flat db flyes - 40's x 12, 65's x 12*, 75's x 8-10*
4 - dips - 2 x failure*

So if you count the total sets, it's 13, and work-sets are 8. Being I don't train with a partner, I don not take the presses to failure - as in, I actually fail on the last rep - but I take it to the point I KNOW I won't complete another rep on my own, hence, failure minus one rep, if you will. Whereas Mentzer and Yates only did 1 workset to failure, I can't bcoz no partner, so I justify it by doing 2 worksets. But point is, you can see how confusing it can be when talking sets, if 2 guys aren't on the same page regarding what they call a "set".

 

[Dawgpound_Hank]

I’m usually in the 12-20 set range depending on the size of muscle being worked. I will probably go back to pyramiding the weight until I’m at maybe 6 reps but definitely no lower than that. Sounds like we all have the same idea. The Yates/Mentzer plan just seems like an injury waiting to happen imo.

It's not if you really know the concept. So many think these guys just jump right in with no warmups. Watch Yates' vid on YT Blood N Guts sometime and you will truly see. Example, his heaviest set on incline bb press is 425, yet he does warmups prior to that with 135, 225 and 325. He just doesn't kill himself on those sets. Same with all exercises. But yes, you DO have to go heavy, so there is that risk.

 

[Dawgpound_Hank]

One thing important I should add, and bcoz you see many comments on YT when it comes to HIT vs volume, is they will say "yeah, that's just the old fashion pyramid system - nothing new blah blah". It is NOT that and I tell you why. Typically with the old school pyramid system - which Arnie, Lou, Zane, etc all used, including myself many years back then - is that they worked hard even on some of their lighter sets when building up to their top set. What does that do? That tires you out, so when you DO get to your top set, you can't get as many reps as if you HADN'T tired yourself out. With HIT - and why I listed the weights & reps I used in my example - you do NOT tire yourself out before your top set. Sure, on flat db press, I coulda did the 75's for prolly 40-50 reps, and the 100's for 25, but I only did minimal reps to warm-up and warm-up only. That way, when you get to your top set, you have maximal energy to try to hit a new PR - which you want to strive for every workout, even it's only 1 more rep than before. Had I wore myself out like in conventional pyramidding, I prolly woulda only got the 120's for 5-6 reps vs the 12 I get, and wouldn't even have been able to handle the 130's at all haha.

 

[wallyd]

One thing important I should add, and bcoz you see many comments on YT when it comes to HIT vs volume, is they will say "yeah, that's just the old fashion pyramid system - nothing new blah blah". It is NOT that and I tell you why. Typically with the old school pyramid system - which Arnie, Lou, Zane, etc all used, including myself many years back then - is that they worked hard even on some of their lighter sets when building up to their top set. What does that do? That tires you out, so when you DO get to your top set, you can't get as many reps as if you HADN'T tired yourself out. With HIT - and why I listed the weights & reps I used in my example - you do NOT tire yourself out before your top set. Sure, on flat db press, I coulda did the 75's for prolly 40-50 reps, and the 100's for 25, but I only did minimal reps to warm-up and warm-up only. That way, when you get to your top set, you have maximal energy to try to hit a new PR - which you want to strive for every workout, even it's only 1 more rep than before. Had I wore myself out like in conventional pyramidding, I prolly woulda only got the 120's for 5-6 reps vs the 12 I get, and wouldn't even have been able to handle the 130's at all haha.

I see what you’re saying. Thanks for clarifying & yes I was thinking pyramid when reading your post & I always pyramided my sets back in the day. I probably take too many sets to far tbh based on what you’re describing in this post. Pyramiding did work but I’m just a little older now & probably anything would’ve worked back then. Lol

 

[Roughrydr]

I've been seeing some of the best results of my life at 68. I've been doing timed sets. In other words each set lasts one minute or two or even three minutes. I'm using mostly dumbbells of late. Even for a lot of leg stuff, but more machines with legs. Obviously to do one continuous set for three minutes you're going to do drop down sets to the point of absolute failure. I do this twice a week for each muscle group. And I've undergone an absolute body transformation. I look smoking hot. Lol. But seriously,  I really do look great. Probably better than ever and leaner. Not as strong. But healthier and beach ready.

 

[b52]

I try to stay out of the 6-8 rep range these days. I usually stick to 10-15 and occasionally I'll do sets of 8. I don't barbell chest press anymore I use dumbbells, hammer strength and cables. I've pulled my pec too many times in the past and my shoulder handles the dumbbells much better. I do a minimum of 9 working sets per muscle group but normally end up in the 12 set range. Legs and back sometimes are 14. I do drop sets, and super sets usually in the middle of the workout and burn out on the last 3. If I had a long day and am tired I'll get my minimum and just get it done.

 

[ESTROGEN GUY]

I try to stay out of the 6-8 rep range these days. I usually stick to 10-15 and occasionally I'll do sets of 8. I don't barbell chest press anymore I use dumbbells, hammer strength and cables. I've pulled my pec too many times in the past and my shoulder handles the dumbbells much better. I do a minimum of 9 working sets per muscle group but normally end up in the 12 set range. Legs and back sometimes are 14. I do drop sets, and super sets usually in the middle of the workout and burn out on the last 3. If I had a long day and am tired I'll get my minimum and just get it done.

Smart. I use this method for clients. Who use to compete but are getting up in age, (not a knock on age) We will all get there. It's just a safe way to say in the game and with the right stress and tension. They all look great.