Stem cell therapy??

[Guest]

Anyone look into stem cell treatment for injuries and what not? There two main methods I?ve heard of one is iv injection of the stem cells which are supposed to find their way to injuries. From what I read a lot of them get stuck in lungs and they basically can only go where blood goes, so tendons and ligaments wouldn?t get much help. But people say they have amazing success with it. The other method is injection right into the area like the tendon that?s damaged... any thoughts? I wouldn?t mind trying it if it gave results even if it was pricey and just fixed problems

 

[legaljuicer]

I know an IFBB pro that had it done

 

[liftsiron]

They do it at a clinic in Green Bay WI, several people that I know had it done and said it helped. It takes awhile because they have to harvest enough of your own stem cells.

 

[Guest]

Do you know the approximate price range?

 

[Dawgpound_Hank]

Do you know the approximate price range?

We have a vet on here that had it done for his back - said $3000. Not saying who it is bcoz maybe he don't want it out there. He said it worked miracle for his back.

 

[Big B]

We have a vet on here that had it done for his back - said $3000. Not saying who it is bcoz maybe he don't want it out there. He said it worked miracle for his back.

Not bad if that's accurate...

 

[gotgame]

I have yet to see ANY verifiable results for a musculoskeletal purpose showing tissue regeneration. I got into it legally with a company called regenerex this past year because icalled them out on false imaging and claims. .

The basics of it is at this time stem cells for location application do not work. I do this for a living... i real MRI's day in and out for people who have had this done and claim they feel so much better....yea ok well that cartilage defect that measured 1cm..it still measures 1cm.... why are you feeling better? I have no clue but you still dont have cartilage there....

Other companies have used MRI techniques to alter the images... I will give one company credit... they did grow some "tissue" but it was just afunctional scar tissue and the person still have a deficient ACL

Can it work in the future... umm i believe eventually for certain types of injuries that have low blood flow it could work but not at this time. At least not more then other therapies.

I literally dealt with this today. In southern california this guy paid he claimed 10k for stem cell injections into his back. Said it worked great for a year but still was having a bit of pain so had another MRI. I sat him down and showed him his MRI last year and today side by side.... almost identical although slightly worse...his huge herniated disc was still there..his facets stilll bad.. endplates still had edema..

He was pissed. I said why are you upset said you feel better right?. he said they it was supposed to help all of that but it didnt!


Ok as much as i am against stem cells and dont believe it will do anything..if there is a chance for it to work get it done for partial tendon tears without much tendinosis, grade 2 type ligament injuries, or muscular tears. Dont even think about it for cartilage, complete ligament, facet issues or disc issues.

 

[gotgame]

ohhh another patient did have stem cells injected into his back and had great results! buuut.. when i reviewed his images with him the disc had a tear previously and it was just abutting the nerve root. So it would have gotten better with time on its own as the tear healed, and disc dessicated and moved back.

Guess what his new MRI showed...yup the disc dessicated ( expected) so it shrunk and the disc is enroaching on but not touching the nerve root. So ok he didnt have pain anymore but i cant say the injection did it.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the Input I guess I will hold off the injections then

 

[choke]

I am not sure why people would say that injections do not work.
I am the vet who had it injected into his back.

In July of 2016, I made the mistake of allowing a friend drive my car. I was in the passenger seat, and he made an error in judgment by deciding to see if the car could fly. We hit two tree's, I had to be cut out of my own car. The end result was a broken back. My L1 and L2 were disintegrated.

Long story short, I did not end up having surgery like my buddy who was driving my car did. He had a 13 hour surgery, and lost most of the use of his left leg. My Neuro said that because of all of the core training I do via BJJ/MMA/Muay Thai, enabled the bone fragments to stay in place more or less; as I understand it.

The treatment modality I tried was simple. Once I was able to move again, and raise my arms above my head, I simply did hangs from a pull up bar for as long as I was able. I've always been very flexible, so I stretched every day; and I especially did bridges using a swiss ball every day, at least twice a day. Once in the morning and once in the evening for about 15 minutes minimum.

Above and beyond all of that: I had the opportunity to give stem cells a shot. And it absolutely worked. Not only did it work, my back, right now, is in better shape now, than it was prior to my accident. I had a curvature in my spine thanks to wear and tear that I earned while I was in the Army. I was an Infantryman, and did a good portion of my time in a LRSD; and the gear carried was above and beyond a "regular" Infantry load. So now, the curvature is no longer, my back is stronger than ever.

As a matter of fact, the treatment was so effective, was back in the gym by December doing squats and deads. I was back on the mats by the end of January.

$3000 was what it cost, right into my back.

I cannot recommend it highly enough!

 

[gotgame]

I am not sure why people would say that injections do not work.
I am the vet who had it injected into his back.

In July of 2016, I made the mistake of allowing a friend drive my car. I was in the passenger seat, and he made an error in judgment by deciding to see if the car could fly. We hit two tree's, I had to be cut out of my own car. The end result was a broken back. My L1 and L2 were disintegrated.

Long story short, I did not end up having surgery like my buddy who was driving my car did. He had a 13 hour surgery, and lost most of the use of his left leg. My Neuro said that because of all of the core training I do via BJJ/MMA/Muay Thai, enabled the bone fragments to stay in place more or less; as I understand it.

The treatment modality I tried was simple. Once I was able to move again, and raise my arms above my head, I simply did hangs from a pull up bar for as long as I was able. I've always been very flexible, so I stretched every day; and I especially did bridges using a swiss ball every day, at least twice a day. Once in the morning and once in the evening for about 15 minutes minimum.

Above and beyond all of that: I had the opportunity to give stem cells a shot. And it absolutely worked. Not only did it work, my back, right now, is in better shape now, than it was prior to my accident. I had a curvature in my spine thanks to wear and tear that I earned while I was in the Army. I was an Infantryman, and did a good portion of my time in a LRSD; and the gear carried was above and beyond a "regular" Infantry load. So now, the curvature is no longer, my back is stronger than ever.

As a matter of fact, the treatment was so effective, was back in the gym by December doing squats and deads. I was back on the mats by the end of January.

$3000 was what it cost, right into my back.

I cannot recommend it highly enough!

so i am assuming u had compression fractures of l1 and l2? given the mechanism of injury the posterior column may have been invovled too.

if you show me the images of your compression fracture pre procedure and post and it shows restoration of vebrebral body height you will be the first person in history to have that and have articles written about you.. not even kyphoplasty or cement augmentation does that..it just stabilies it.

im assuming you didnt have signficicant retropulsion based on that supporting structures comment..problem is there is nothing behind your posterior aspect just the canal..no muscle so there wouldnt have been anything to prevent that. just luck of how it happen.

So i will be the person to say that stem cells will not help post traumatic compression fractures or change the course of disease progression more then you being not old, taking AAS, insulin, good diet.

Now if you have post traumatic disease issue you likely tore your annulus fiborsis and leaking contents resulting in pain and weakness, That heals on its own and overtime. If you had posterior ligament sprain that also heals.

So no, stem cells may have had a subjective response but using objective imaging i do not believe that can help.

When you say curvature has changed? Well that depends on how it was measured the angles calculated, a rotational component, the person measuring it etc. stem cells wont help that.


provide the imaging and i can comment more

 

[b52]

so i am assuming u had compression fractures of l1 and l2? given the mechanism of injury the posterior column may have been invovled too.

if you show me the images of your compression fracture pre procedure and post and it shows restoration of vebrebral body height you will be the first person in history to have that and have articles written about you.. not even kyphoplasty or cement augmentation does that..it just stabilies it.

im assuming you didnt have signficicant retropulsion based on that supporting structures comment..problem is there is nothing behind your posterior aspect just the canal..no muscle so there wouldnt have been anything to prevent that. just luck of how it happen.

So i will be the person to say that stem cells will not help post traumatic compression fractures or change the course of disease progression more then you being not old, taking AAS, insulin, good diet.

Now if you have post traumatic disease issue you likely tore your annulus fiborsis and leaking contents resulting in pain and weakness, That heals on its own and overtime. If you had posterior ligament sprain that also heals.

So no, stem cells may have had a subjective response but using objective imaging i do not believe that can help.

When you say curvature has changed? Well that depends on how it was measured the angles calculated, a rotational component, the person measuring it etc. stem cells wont help that.


provide the imaging and i can comment more

Regular people terms doc. Regular people terms lol. I must say this is a really interesting thread.

 

[gotgame]

Regular people terms doc. Regular people terms lol. I must say this is a really interesting thread.

ok regular terms.

Holiday party 2018. The major pain doctors and PMR guys had a party in southern california. I was invited because i do there imaging and there image guided injections when needed.

As this was a social event we were all sitting around chatting with wine and significant others ( some mistresses lol). When the topic of stem cells came up they all said " well sometimes patients feel better... smiled and said it paid the bills"

 

[choke]

What I can tell you is that my L1 and L2 were destroyed, powdered, after a friend made my 911 fly 40+ feet through the air, into a tree, then off that first tree into another one. The first tree introduced me to my airbag; the second gave me a face full of windshield; and I had to be cut out of my own car.

What I also have is congenital analgesia. That assisted me in healing. But if you care to go toe to toe with my neurosurgeon, fine with me. That employer being an intelligence agency that plays by fewer rules than the one that starts with the letter "C".

I had a curvature in my spine pre-break. L1 and L2 disintegrated. My only therapy was hangs for as long as I could grip the bar, stretching, and stem cells. But I'm sure that some doctors think it's all in some patients heads, and that I simply imagined feeling better (the congenital analgesia prevents that kind of thing), and that my back didn't actually heal after the stems cells, and that the curvature that was there that no longer is; is actually still there, I've just convinced myself and multiple doctors from both the private sector and ones that serve the intelligence/paramilitary community are full of shit.
There's a reason that the medical industry is called the medical industry. Know it all's and con-artists abound.

Then you can talk to a few of the people that I know from the BJJ/MMA world that have had stem cells used to rehab injuries that they've received as a result of training. But you seem to be one of the folks firmly in the anti-stem cell camp. Why the hell are some in the medical industry have so much religion in denying that the shit works, is a mystery to me.

 

[b52]

Choke brother. I have no axe to grind here but maybe take care of this in pm before this gets out of hand.

 

[Dawgpound_Hank]

This thread is GOLD!

We get the views of a medical doc who has experience in this area & says the treatment is pretty much useless, AND we have a respected vet who actually had the treatment done, and is pain free now!

Either way, Choke that is awesome that you are out of pain and back to performing 100% again bro!