Extreme Poverty

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Wreck

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Everyone likes to jump up and down about what shouldn't be done. About criticizing the other's view point on what not to do. But what I'm interested in is, what's the concensus on what needs to be done.

Seriously. I'm not trying to bate anyone into an argument, and I'm a registered INDEPENDENT voter, so I won't get offended by anything negative regarding any particular party. I do have my own opinions of what not to do, as do many others, but don't know that I've ever heard any good solutions.

So, what say ye? How should the U.S. handle this situation with the extreme poor?
 
Well ignoring it hasnt worked. Maybe they can kick the Indian's out of some land again and put the poor there? :)
 
Less help for other countries and more help for its own people would be a start.
 
But there is always the sociological viewpoint of you NEED poor people. A society can not function with out different classes and wealth levels.

Your going to need the presidents of companies, accountants, doctors, lawyers. But you are also going to need the low skill workers that the poor makes up.
 
But help in what way? Certainly not just give the poor a paycheck big enough to not make them poor.
 
Wreck said:
But help in what way? Certainly not just give the poor a paycheck big enough to not make them poor.
Click to expand...

I never gave it a thought on how to help them but maybe invest some of the money we normally give to other countries in a way that we can get it back out someway such as schooling (trade or book school), opening up job opportunites, etc.

I don't really have an answer like I said as I never gave it much thought or enough to form my own personal opinion but I am sure we could put the money to use on our own soil before other countries.
 
Stout1 said:
But there is always the sociological viewpoint of you NEED poor people. A society can not function with out different classes and wealth levels.

Your going to need the presidents of companies, accountants, doctors, lawyers. But you are also going to need the low skill workers that the poor makes up.
Click to expand...

I'm not up on my sociology, but I'd think that the different levels of workers could be made up of those climbing the ladder. At some point you're just entering the workforce with no skillset, so you'd have to start somewhere. Then, as your education/skills increased, you'd move up.

One thing you're going to see happen, and it part of my interest in this question, is that as other nation become industrialized, you'll see more and more of this type of labor move elsewhere. Also, more labor will be replaced with robotic machinery as the cost of technology drops and the cost of labor increases.
 
Just wanted to give myself quick props on the use of the words "skills," as in mad skills, and "robotics" in the above post.
 
Stout1 said:
I never gave it a thought on how to help them but maybe invest some of the money we normally give to other countries in a way that we can get it back out someway such as schooling (trade or book school), opening up job opportunites, etc.

I don't really have an answer like I said as I never gave it much thought or enough to form my own personal opinion but I am sure we could put the money to use on our own soil before other countries.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm in the same boat you are. Education is always the big one. Many do see the value in it, and would take the opportunity if given (some create the opportunity for themselves). But also, many don't see the value in education. Maybe some education in education? lol

I had an interesting conversation with a highly educated fellow on this once. His opinion was that every US citizen should be able to exist at a substanence level, without doing a thing. A roof, a meal, a doctor, etc. Two issues he did see though, would be the transition from not working to working, that you'd have an issue of making the same amount of money for doing nothing that you would for having a job, many wouldn't see the point. The other was this "free housing" would end up in undesirable areas, something that would be counterproductive.
 
Wreck said:
I'm not up on my sociology, but I'd think that the different levels of workers could be made up of those climbing the ladder. At some point you're just entering the workforce with no skillset, so you'd have to start somewhere. Then, as your education/skills increased, you'd move up.

One thing you're going to see happen, and it part of my interest in this question, is that as other nation become industrialized, you'll see more and more of this type of labor move elsewhere. Also, more labor will be replaced with robotic machinery as the cost of technology drops and the cost of labor increases.
Click to expand...

Correct you have to start somewhere, but if everyone is movign up the ladder who is going to replace the poor? I believe that if you erase the poor, the middle class are not going to want to take the jobs that the poor used to do. Why would anyone want to go down a socio-economical rung? That is why in my opinioin you need different classes. Communism, Socialism, Karl Marx could be stuff you could look up to read about which kinda base their idealogy of off a classless society.

If other nations become industrialized you will see their poor move up and kinda even out the different classes. I don't see a reason why our poor would move when other countries have no were near the pay as us, that is why we have so many immigrants coming in is the pay that we have over other countries.

Most of the labor that has been replaced is the monatenous stuff, look at all the major car assembly plants. They for the most part have alot of machinery doing the work now, but the advantage to that is a lower end cost on the final product. If everything was hand made by man our wage demands in this country would almost make the final product unaffordable for the majority of us. So it is a win/lose situation.
 
Wreck said:
Yeah, I'm in the same boat you are. Education is always the big one. Many do see the value in it, and would take the opportunity if given (some create the opportunity for themselves). But also, many don't see the value in education. Maybe some education in education? lol

I had an interesting conversation with a highly educated fellow on this once. His opinion was that every US citizen should be able to exist at a substanence level, without doing a thing. A roof, a meal, a doctor, etc. Two issues he did see though, would be the transition from not working to working, that you'd have an issue of making the same amount of money for doing nothing that you would for having a job, many wouldn't see the point. The other was this "free housing" would end up in undesirable areas, something that would be counterproductive.
Click to expand...

Education isn't key persay, but a trade or of the like would be. Some sort of education is what I was hinting at, not just "book smarts" but an actual trade.

We already do have people living for free in this country. LOL. Look at the people with free housing, food stamps, free doctors (tax payers pick up this tab usually or passed down by raising hospital costs), etc. etc. But what we need to focus on is getting the people that are down on the luck or not productive back to being a functioning and particpating member of society and quit handign shit out after a certain point....
 
All I will say is this...to improve the aftermath of katrina we are going to have to stop thinking about how we are going to cut taxes for the rich and focus more on what we are going to do to help the people that have been effected. Call me democrat I dont care....the truth is the truth
 
EXACTLY. The odd thing is that they keep saying medicine etc cost money so give. Why dont the companies just give it for free? Why is it that the big businesses are STILL making money? ITS BULLSHIT! THERE ARENT DOING THEIR PART!
 
Guess what company got a contract for part of the damaged area(s)?
































































Halliburton! :redhot: :banghead:
 
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME????? NO WAY! I HOPE FUCKING BUSH AND CHANEY BURN FOR THIS!!! THEY HAVE RIPPED OFF THE COUNTRY!!!! DAMN IT!!!!!!!!! I HATE THIS IMPOTENCY OF THE COUNTRY!!!
 
LINK to article:

especially note the bottom paragraph.....



Halliburton gets Katrina contract, hires former FEMA director
1 Sept. 2005
WASHINGTON, Sept. 1 (HalliburtonWatch.org) -- The US Navy asked Halliburton to repair naval facilities damaged by Hurricane Katrina, the Houston Chronicle reported today. The work was assigned to Halliburton's KBR subsidiary under the Navy's $500 million CONCAP contract awarded to KBR in 2001 and renewed in 2004. The repairs will take place in Louisiana and Mississippi.

KBR has not been asked to repair the levees destroyed in New Orleans which became the primary cause of most of the damage.

Since 1989, governments worldwide have awarded $3 billion in contracts to KBR's Government and Infrastructure Division to clean up damage caused by natural and man-made disasters.

Earlier this year, the Navy awarded $350 million in contracts to KBR and three other companies to repair naval facilities in northwest Florida damaged by Hurricane Ivan, which struck in September 2004. The ongoing repair work involves aircraft support facilities, medium industrial buildings, marine construction, mechanical and electrical improvements, civil construction, and family housing renovation.

In March, the former director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), which is tasked with responding to hurricane disasters, became a lobbyist for KBR. Joe Allbaugh was director of FEMA during the first two years of the Bush administration.

Today, FEMA is widely criticized for its slow response to the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

Allbaugh managed Bush's campaign for Texas governor in 1994, served as Gov. Bush's chief of staff and was the national campaign manager for the Bush campaign in 2000. Along with Karen Hughes and Karl Rove, Allbaugh was one of Bush's closest advisers.

"This is a perfect example of someone cashing in on a cozy political relationship," said Scott Amey, general counsel at the Project on Government Oversight, a Washington watchdog group. "Allbaugh's former placement as a senior government official and his new lobbying position with KBR strengthens the company's already tight ties to the administration, and I hope that contractor accountability is not lost as a result."
 
Halliburton
Dick Cheney, CEO until 2000 election
Arthur Andersen, former Accountant
Carlyle Group
George H.W. Bush Sr, Senior Advisor
Frank Carlucci, Chairman
James Baker, Senior Counselor
?I fixed the election in Florida for George Bush.?
- - James Baker, 2003 Dec 01-ish
Arthur Levitt, Senior Advisor
Richard Darman, Partner
Bechtel
Donald Rumsfeld, former lobbyist
"Judge whether good enough hit S.H. at same time. Not only UBL. Go massive. Sweep it all up. Things related and not."
- - Donald Rumsfeld, 2001 Sep 11 memo
George Schultz, former President
Caspar Weinberger, former General Counsel and Vice President
William Casey, former consultant
 
Other Tidbits
Halliburton's subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root (aka Burn & Loot) has epitomized the "military industrial complex" since Vietnam.
Halliburton's top foreign customers in the 1990s were Iran, Iraq & Libya.
Halliburton used fraudulent accounting to gain $210 million of phony profits in 1998. The SEC fined them $7.5 million. Lesson: Crime Does Pay.
Cheney faces criminal investigation for bribery to win a Nigerian drilling contract in 1999.
Halliburton sold nuclear detonators to Libya, and KBR used loopholes to buy Libyan oil.
Meanwhile, Rumsfeld's company (ABB) sold nuclear reactors to North Korea.
Bechtel wanted to build an oil pipeline for Saddam. Twenty years later, they finally have a contract.
 
iraq_dry.jpg
 
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