Something to think about if you claim to be christian

Ms.Wetback said:
People have done that as well.

Mick-G-you can not use scientific data to prove someone died and went to heaven or hell. I can tell you this, my husband has been documented DEAD. And was revived. So what you are saying is not true.
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I am assuming that you are referring to "out of body experiences." Those have been proven false. Astronauts in intense gravity training often have blackouts where the body mimics dying even though they are not dead, during which time they report these experiences. There have been numerous reports of out of body experiences from astronauts after going through intense g-forces.
 
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Thate said:
Everything in college is bias bro, all left wing nutbags. Aall that you heard is pure propaganda.
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Forgive me for playing devil's advocate, but this sounds like more of a personal opinion of yours than fact. Can you prove this statement? Using anything other than the bible that is. Because if the only thing that you can use is the Bible, then the same "left wing nutbags" could call you biased as well and call the Bible propaganda too.
 
Cruci said:
I am assuming that you are referring to "out of body experiences." Those have been proven false. Astronauts in intense gravity training often have blackouts where the body mimics dying even though they are not dead, during which time they report these experiences. There have been numerous reports of out of body experiences from astronauts after going through intense g-forces.
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Ummmmm no Cruci, my husband was DEAD.
100% confirmed D E A D.
 
Thate said:
Everything in college is bias bro, all left wing nutbags. Aall that you heard is pure propaganda. it is true that some stuff did get left out of the Bible, but included in the catholic Bible. Such as the book of Enoch, as it wasn't divinely inspired.

Can you post links as to where one can find such nonsense?
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it was straight history of the bible.

who wrote it, when they wrote it, how it was included in the bible, books that werent included, shoddy translations, and the majority of the books being destroyed centuries and centuries ago
 
tacosupreem said:
it was straight history of the bible.

who wrote it, when they wrote it, how it was included in the bible, books that werent included, shoddy translations, and the majority of the books being destroyed centuries and centuries ago
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it is one thing to nix a word or two during translation, and to say that Jesus killed two people
 
Cruci for someone who claims to be a Christian why would you even consider taking an anti-Christ approach?
 
Thate said:
Cruci for someone who claims to be a Christian why would you even consider taking an anti-Christ approach?
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You are turning this around on me in order to not answer the question. I am used to this, as religious people get defensive and change the subject. I don't care if you think I am a Christian or not. Nothing personal bro, but what you or anyone else considers my beliefs to be means absolutely nothing in the ranks of importance in my life . And my motives are not the point of this discussion.

I will direct you back to the question.

Can you show proof to back up what you said or can't you? Or are you basing this only on personal faith? If your only "proof" that what taco said is wrong is the Bible, well to be honest bro, you don't have proof. I am not saying that I believe what taco said either, but I at least try to form a logical and scientific explanation.
 
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which part are you talking about? this is the first I ever heard of Jesus killing people and born of a soldier. does that even need disproving to you?
 
tacosupreem said:
it was straight history of the bible.

who wrote it, when they wrote it, how it was included in the bible, books that werent included, shoddy translations, and the majority of the books being destroyed centuries and centuries ago
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I wanted to stay out of this, but this just sounds rediculous. And No Cruci I dont argue against it just based on faith :D. If what youre talking about was unbiased then why is it only concerned with proving Jesus didnt do this or that and killed people. I know a little bit about what youre talking about. Supposedly Jesus pushed one of his friends off a building or something and then brought him back to life? I thought it was laughable when I heard it, didnt know anyone would really take those seriously. Why do you find that more believable than him being the son of God? Its almost like you would rather believe he isnt. And all these lost scrolls & texts are common knowledge. If you believe the bible is just a bunch of carefully edited meaningless texts, then what makes you believe so much that the b.s. they teach in your class is so true? You say they have good points and make sense. So do the bible. That is the retardedness of this. Totally contradictory to what youre trying to prove. Like you said, theyre centuries old, so is the bible. So I guess you get to pick who sounds more crazy and try to believe that right? Were all abunch of monkies that came from a magical big bang that came out of nowhere. Ah Cruci have fun with this post. But Im done with this thread.
 
IRON37 said:
I wanted to stay out of this, but this just sounds rediculous. And No Cruci I dont argue against it just based on faith :D. If what youre talking about was unbiased then why is it only concerned with proving Jesus didnt do this or that and killed people. I know a little bit about what youre talking about. Supposedly Jesus pushed one of his friends off a building or something and then brought him back to life? I thought it was laughable when I heard it, didnt know anyone would really take those seriously. Why do you find that more believable than him being the son of God? Its almost like you would rather believe he isnt. And all these lost scrolls & texts are common knowledge. If you believe the bible is just a bunch of carefully edited meaningless texts, then what makes you believe so much that the b.s. they teach in your class is so true? You say they have good points and make sense. So do the bible. That is the retardedness of this. Totally contradictory to what youre trying to prove. Like you said, theyre centuries old, so is the bible. So I guess you get to pick who sounds more crazy and try to believe that right? Were all abunch of monkies that came from a magical big bang that came out of nowhere. Ah Cruci have fun with this post. But Im done with this thread.
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If you knew anything about the cannonization of the bible, you might understand why taco is reading other books. Groups of men decided "this book stays, this book doesn't" ect.

Don't hate me because I am a skeptic about a lot of things. I use logic and try to find proof. Sorry if that bothers anyone.
 
Ms.Wetback said:
People have done that as well.

Mick-G-you can not use scientific data to prove someone died and went to heaven or hell. I can tell you this, my husband has been documented DEAD. And was revived. So what you are saying is not true.
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Actually you prove my case. So it is true. There is no scientific data to prove there is life after death. If your husband "died, then maybe he didn't pass thru like some have claimed. Maybe he didn't die either. It is proven that theheart can stop for long periods and be revived. "Mind over matter" Hell some ppl can do this without physical truma. Your response is only to say you can not use it, because it can't be proven. Many things can not be prove, and later technology advance and things ARE prove. Funny how most "Christians" have absolutely no recourse of response, but to use their faith and God as an explanation, which doesnt prove anything, because none of it can be physically proven other than making contradictions about what one believes. Like i said im a Christian, but i do not push my beliefs on others, and to be honest some of you this is exactly what you are doing, because you are pent on what you have been brought up to believe and what you think you know is truth. This is done alot especially by the media. Same senerio. All im saying is that ppl will push what they believe even if they dont realize it.
 
Ms.Wetback said:
Great video..........nothing to do with my husband, but all the same it was interesting to watch.
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Actually it has EVERYTHING to do with your husband.

People who die and are brought back to life often have "out of body experiences" and see white lights. So do astronauts when they are in training.

They get the same result. Even when one dies and one doesn't. Hmmmm.......


Another thought, Phillip Anselmo, the lead singer (formerly) of Pantera has been legally dead TWICE and revived. He reported nothing happened during that time, no white light, nothing.

Some people get the "out of body" effect when they die for a minute, and some don't.

THAT was my point.
 
Cruci said:
Can you show proof to back up what you said or can't you? Or are you basing this only on personal faith? If your only "proof" that what taco said is wrong is the Bible, well to be honest bro, you don't have proof. I am not saying that I believe what taco said either, but I at least try to form a logical and scientific explanation.
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John 20:29 says
29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

I think there is proof of God everywhere, look around look at the sky, the trees, season...goodness take a look at your own body, how everything works together perfectly, God is truly amazing in what He has created, it is hard to believe that we came from a single celled organism and evolution made us into the magnificent creatures that we are now.

So no we dont have "hard" evidence for everything, but God calls us to believe by faith. That is not necessarily an easy thing but...

1Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2and he began to teach them saying:
3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
 
IRON37 said:
I wanted to stay out of this, but this just sounds rediculous.
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like cruci said that's what the cannonization of the bible was. A frickin' vote by scholars. And then the shit was all destroyed after monks transcribed it because there were tons of different versions of the bible floating around. The monks had most the versions in front of them. picked what they thought was the best one, and that's what you got. because they all were set on fire.

dont just follow what you hear blindly esp faith, you gotta be skeptical and see what really goes on behind the scenes.
 
Let me throw a couple of biblical gems you guys way then. Since the bible is perfect and inerrant, perhaps you can explain these then.

My point is that with errors like these, it proves that the bible has errors. So you have to decide what is right and what is wrong.

LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

RABBITS DONT CHEW CUD

MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

THERE IS NO WAY TO SEE ALL THE KINGDOMS FROM ANY MOUNTAIN. IT IS NOT PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE.

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

WHICH ONES WERE HIS LAST WORDS, THEY BOTH COULDNT BE IT.

God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)

WHICH ONE IS IT?

(Jer. 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."

NOTHING SAYS "LOVING GOD" MORE THAN BABIES GETTING BUTCHERED.

"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (Gen 22:1)

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (James 1:13)

DID GOD TEMPT OR NOT, IT CAN'T BE BOTH

2 Kings 8:26 says "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..."

2 Chronicles 22:2 says "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..."

WAIT, HOW OLD WAS HE?

Luke 3:23 says "And Jesus...the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli"

Matt 1:16 says, "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus..."

HOW DID JOESPH HAVE TWO FATHERS?
 
Not having read all the post i am going to put my .02 in here.

I am a christian. I have not always been a christian. I do not attend church for the people who judge. I am able to spread the word and make a difference in peoples lives by going into places that are considered "worldly". There is a big difference in being "religious" and "spiritual" Personally I prefer to consider myself spiritual!

As a christian i believe that we are asked by God only to do a couple of things Feed him when he is hungry, shelter him when he has no home and do for him as you would have done unto us.

Living by these principles is I find peace with in myself.

I found God and Christ in the spring of 2000 after studin peagan religions. It was the most life changing experience i have ever had. If you plant his seed (which you have to believe to do) and do as he request then i see you as a christian.

The bible is metaphoric and not literial. We need to remember that it is a book of guidence.
 
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The purpose of this post

Was to bring to the attention of those who call themselves 'Christians' who are neither Christian nor truthful.

The definition of Christian is someone who not only follows the teachings of Christ believing the Holy Bible is God's infallible written word, to obey who believes in faith that Jesus Christ died upon the cross to account for the sins of the world. It is the acceptance of this concept that separates those who are religious from those who are Christians.

If you persist in lusts of the flesh; Wife swapping, pornography, thievery ; lying, etc.. Believing there is nothing wrong with sin as it suits your purpose, you may be religious, but you deceive yourself and cause your brother to fall by professing you are a Christian.

This is why so many Tyrants have prevailed and persecuted so many. This is why so many were burned and murdered by Catholic church. This is why the world falls for deceit and wish to be tricked! They have lied to themselves so much they don't know what the truth is. " You do the will of your father the devil" sorry don't know the verse number.

There is two types of hate for Christians: One is the hate for the True Christian/follower of Christ. This hate arises because people wish to do what ever they want without having to hear there may be consequences. A Christian can be a real buzzkill for them. This true Christian doesn't go around pointing fingers and trying to force people to believe their way. Though they may show you or politely try to convince you only because they truly care of the road you may be taking.

The other is the phony: They partake in all things worldly while they sing praises and tell others what it is they should be doing. When people look at them they think, "What is it they do any different than I?"
A description of this type of Christian is Adolf Hitler. These type of self deceiver may not be as bad as AH, but they are following the same principle of doing, not Gods will but there own.
So , I can hear some saying, "Yes but I repent after I sin." Maybe so.
But if you claim to be my friend and do me wrong, how long will I call you friend when I see you don't even care when you stab me in the back just because you know I may let it slide?
How long before I see you are anything but my friend? How long before I see it isn't mistakes you are making but just the way you are and you could care less about our friendship?

Please do yourself and others a favor and call yourself ANYTHING but Christian.

As for Jesus Christ being Jesus Christ- It's about faith. Real simple. Can you prove the faith you may have in a mate? Can you prove what it is you feel that gives you faith that your brother won't do you intentional harm?
It's so simple; If you don't believe all of what Christ is from the words of the Holy Bible move on!
Why even waste one more moment on it?
Form a new religion. Worship chickens or money or anything. Damn!

And look. This is why I'm NOT a Christian. I am a believer that Christ is what he is supposed to be.
But that doesn't give me righteousness. That doesn't give me any hope the afterlife.
It is said Satan believes Jesus Christ is who he says.
Wake up.
This isn't pointed at anyone in particular.
 
I understand the difference between the two loke, but nobody is perfect bro and we all fall to sin at some point. That doesn't make me any less of a Christian imo.
 
Thate said:
I understand the difference between the two loke, but nobody is perfect bro and we all fall to sin at some point. That doesn't make me any less of a Christian imo.
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I covered that statement in the bold.
 
Cruci said:
I have no use for organized religion. I do believe in Christ as my savior, and I try to understand his teachings, the rest of the bible was written by men, sinners like everyone else, so I take it with a grain of salt.

And before some bible beater wants to criticize me for having unorthodox religious beliefs, please refer to the US Constitution, in the part about "freedom of religion." Thanks in advance.
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dude if you ran for prez i would vote
 
I read alot of people trying to make a reasonable argument for the validity of Jesus Christ,
but here's the flaw:
Faith is contrary to reason.

Since validity is based on logical premise,
and logical premise entails reason,
then reason is the basis for validity.

Contrarily, Christianity is based on Faith,
and faith entails those who believe,
belief, therefore, is the basis of faith.

Belief does not hold in a logical argument,
because it necessarily exists,
this is its premise of validity,
and the basis of proof,
but is devoid of logical premise
because of the abstraction of reason.
Therefore, one need only faith to believe.

As such, faith is contrary to reason,
because since it doesn't require logic to believe,
then faith exists without proof of validity.
Therefore, it is illogical to base a
faith arguement on logical premise.

It all comes down to this,
Either you believe or you don't,
I believe?
 
Quotes from C.S. Lewis taken from 'Mere Christianity'


"All that we call human history--money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery--[is] the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy."

--Mere Christianity

"We have two bits of evidence about the Somebody. One is the universe He has made. If we used that as our only clue, I think we should have to conclude that He was a great artist (for the universe is a very beautiful place), but also that He is quite merciless and no friend to man (for the universe is a very dangerous and terrifying place.) ...The other bit of evidence is that Moral Law which He has put in our minds. And this is a better bit of evidence than the other, because it is inside information. You find out more about God from the Moral Law than from the universe in general just as you find out more about a man by listening to his conversation than by looking at a house he has built."


"My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?"


"When you have reached your own room, be kind to those who have chosen different doors and to those who are still in the hall. If they are wrong they need your prayers all the more; and if they are your enemies, then you are under orders to pray for them. That is one of the rules common to the whole house."


"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would be either a lunatic ? on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg ? or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."


"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."

"The moment you say that one set of moral ideas can be better than another, you are, in fact, measuring them both by a standard, saying that one of them conforms to that standard more nearly than the other. But the standard that measures two things is something different from either. You are, in fact, comparing them both with some Real Morality, admitting that there is such a thing as a real Right, independent of what people think, and that some people?s ideas get nearer to that real Right than others."
 
So , I can hear some saying, "Yes but I repent after I sin." Maybe so.
But if you claim to be my friend and do me wrong, how long will I call you friend when I see you don't even care when you stab me in the back just because you know I may let it slide?
How long before I see you are anything but my friend? How long before I see it isn't mistakes you are making but just the way you are and you could care less about our friendship?





I FEEL YA.
 
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