Tony Blair

  • Thread starter Thread starter John Benz
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goes4ever said:
u don't believe in religion? which means you do not believe in God?
I am sorry to hear that, that is a very dark, sad life to live with no hope. So do you believe when you die, it is just over and there is no heaven or hell?

i think these days organized religion is just big business.
im a realist i guess,show me kinda guy.do i think there is something out there bigger than us all? most likely. do i think there is a heaven or hell? doubt it.
but i keep an open mind. do alot of reading.but with all the religions which one is correct? they believe just as strongly in their religion as you do in yours. are they wrong?
faith,well..i have a hard time believing in something just because a book says its true.. virgin birth for example..dont think so..and all the contradictions and passages that 3 people will read and come off seeing 3 different things.
kinda think religion was used in the beginning to keep order. put the fear of god in them and keep them in line.
now,if you live your life by the morals and standards set by most religions do i think you will probably be a better person for it..sure
but these days even the people that preach the word of god dont live by these standards.live 2 different lives.know what i mean.

dont get me started on people like binny hinn... :flute:
 
I am not even gonna waste my time debating this one..........it is obvious your mind is made up. Believe as you want my friend, but you better be 100% sure there is no hell, cause one day you and all of us will find out for sure.............
 
I just live my life as a good and decent person Do onto others as you would have others do onto you, that's how I live my life.
 
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Fred Phelps
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Fred Phelps

Born November 13, 1929
Meridian, Mississippi United States
Title Pastor
Predecessor none
Religion Christianity - Independent Baptist
Spouse Marge Phelps
Children 13; 4 estranged from family
Fred Waldron Phelps, Sr. (born November 13, 1929 in Meridian, Mississippi) is the pastor and leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, an independent Baptist church in Topeka, Kansas that is listed as a "hate group" by the Southern Poverty Law Center.[1] He is known for preaching that God hates "fags" and that God will punish both homosexuals and "fag enablers" (whom his church defines as anyone it considers to be insufficiently anti-homosexual).[2][3]

Along with funerals, Phelps and his followers frequently picket various events, especially gay pride gatherings and high-profile political gatherings arguing it is their sacred duty to warn others of the wrath to come. When criticized, Phelps' followers say they are protected in doing so by the First Amendment.[4][5] President Bush recently signed the Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act in response to Phelps' protests at military funerals.[6]

Phelps is a self-described "fire and brimstone" preacher who believes that homosexuality and its acceptance have doomed most of the world to eternal damnation. His group has slightly fewer than 100 members, 90 of whom are related to Phelps through blood or marriage or both, although his daughter Shirley claims that only 80% are related.[7]

The group is built around a core of anti-homosexual theology, with many of their activities stemming from the slogan "God hates fags," which is also the name of the group's main website. Gay rights activists, as well as Christians of virtually every denomination, have denounced him as a producer of anti-gay propaganda and violence-inspiring hate speech.[8]

Contents [hide]
1 Childhood
2 Disbarment
3 Activities and statements
4 Personal beliefs
5 Authorship
6 The Laramie Project
7 Political views
7.1 Anti-gay
7.2 Democratic Party
7.3 Support for Al Gore
7.4 Opposition to Al Gore and Bill Clinton
7.5 Fidel Castro
7.6 Saddam Hussein
8 Criminal record
8.1 United States
8.2 Canada
9 People targeted by Fred Phelps
10 Proposed bans
11 Patriot Guard Riders
12 Other measures to discourage funeral protests
13 Legitimacy
14 References
15 Further reading
16 See also
17 External links
17.1 Biographical information
17.2 Criticism of Phelps
17.3 Parodies



[edit] Childhood

The only known photo of Fred Phelps prior to adolescence. He is pictured here at the age of two with his younger sister, Martha-Jean. The shadow in the picture is Fred Wade Phelps, Fred Phelps' father, who took the photo.Fred Phelps was born in Meridian, Mississippi in 1929, the first of two children; his sister, Martha-Jean, was one year younger. His father, Fred Wade Phelps, was a "bull" employed by the local railroad, whose job was to keep people from illegally riding the rails. Fred recalls his father often came home from work "with blood up to his shoulders". Fred's mother, Catherine Phelps, was a homemaker.

The family were devout members of the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. Catherine died of throat cancer at the age of twenty-eight, when Phelps was five years old. It was the first significant experience of his life, and one that appears to have affected him greatly. One of Fred's only memories of his mother is the fact that since she was the only woman on their street who owned a musical instrument (a piano), she used to push it to the front of the house, open all the doors and windows, and play for the pleasure of the neighbors. Catherine was highly regarded in Meridian ? her funeral was attended by the mayor (who was also a pallbearer), a city councilman, two judges, and every member of the Meridian police force.[9]

Shortly after his mother's death, his maternal great-aunt, Irene Jordan, moved in with the family and became a surrogate mother; she was killed in a motor vehicle accident in 1950, shortly before Fred's twenty-first birthday.[9]

Friends and enemies alike recall the young Fred Phelps as a bright, quiet young man; those asked seem to unanimously agree that he was fairly well liked in high school, despite not being very sociable (something to which Phelps himself admits). Friends further recall that Phelps had tendencies to be overbearing and arrogant. By Phelps's own admission, he never dated, and had no interest in members of the opposite sex. He played in the school band (cornet, later switching to bass horn), was on the track team (he specialized in hurdling), and worked as a field reporter for the high school newspaper. Also, during his time in high school he became a Golden Gloves boxer, going to state twice and winning by KO both times. In his graduation-year yearbook, his classmates predicted that he would end up as a professional boxer.[9]

In 1947, Phelps enrolled as a student in at fundamentalist Bob Jones University, which he left after three semesters.[10] He then spent two semesters at the Prairie Bible Institute. In 1951, he earned a two-year degree from John Muir College.[11]


[edit] Disbarment
A formal complaint was filed against Fred W. Phelps, Sr. on November 8, 1977 by the Kansas State Board of Law Examiners for his conduct during a lawsuit against a court reporter named Carolene Brady. Brady had failed to have a court transcript ready for Phelps on the day he asked for it; though it did not affect the outcome of the case for which Phelps had requested the transcript, Phelps still requested $22,000 in damages from her. In the ensuing trial, Phelps called Brady to the stand, declared her a hostile witness, and then cross-examined her for nearly a week, during which he accused her of being a "slut," tried to introduce testimony from former boyfriends whom Phelps wanted to subpoena, and accused her of a variety of perverse sexual acts, ultimately reducing her to tears on the stand.[12] Phelps lost the case; according to the Kansas Supreme Court:

The trial became an exhibition of a personal vendetta by Phelps against Carolene Brady. His examination was replete with repetition, badgering, innuendo, belligerence, irrelevant and immaterial matter, evidencing only a desire to hurt and destroy the defendant. The jury verdict didn't stop the onslaught of Phelps. He was not satisfied with the hurt, pain, and damage he had visited on Carolene Brady.[12]

In an appeal, Phelps prepared affidavits swearing to the court that he had eight witnesses whose testimony would convince the court to rule in his favor. Brady, in turn, obtained sworn, signed affidavits from the eight people in question, all of whom said that Phelps had never contacted them and that they had no reason to testify against Brady; Phelps had committed perjury.[13]

On July 20, 1979, Fred Phelps was permanently disbarred from practicing law in the state of Kansas[13].


[edit] Activities and statements

One of Phelps' grandchildren at a picket rally.Main article: Westboro Baptist Church
All of Phelps' recent actions were in conjunction with the congregation of Westboro Baptist Church; see Westboro's notable activities.


[edit] Personal beliefs
Phelps claims to be an old school Baptist, which includes embracing John Calvin's doctrine of unconditional election, the belief that God has elected certain people for salvation before birth. However, he takes it further so as to say that almost nobody is a member of the elect, and furthermore that he and the members of his congregation (mostly his family) are the only members of the elect, because they are the only ones not afraid to publish the current relevant application of the word of God (that "God hates fags").

During 1993?94 interviews with the Topeka Capital-Journal, the four Phelps children (out of thirteen) who had left the church asserted that their father's religious beliefs were either nonexistent to begin with or have dwindled down to nearly nothing. They insist that Westboro actually serves to enable a paraphilia of Phelps, wherein he is literally addicted to hatred (this statement would serve as the inspiration for the title of the book about Phelps' life). Two of his sons, Mark and Nate, insist that the church is actually a carefully planned cult that allows Phelps to see himself as a demigod, wielding absolute control over the lives of his family and congregants, essentially turning them into slaves that he can use for the sole purpose of gratifying his every whim and acting as the structure for his delusion that he is the only righteous man on Earth.[14] In 1995, Mark Phelps wrote a letter to the people of Topeka to this effect; it was run in the Topeka Capital-Journal.[15] The children's claim is partially backed up by B.H. McAllister, the Baptist minister who ordained Phelps. McAllister said in a 1993 interview that Phelps developed a delusion wherein he was one of the few people on Earth worthy of God's grace and that everyone else in the world was going to Hell, and that salvation or damnation could be directly obtained by either aligning with or opposing Phelps. As of 2006, Phelps maintains this belief.[14] Phelps and his family picket somewhere every day. They picket about 15 churches every Sunday.[16]


[edit] Authorship
According to Phelps' children, he has written several unpublished biographies of medieval religious figures. Phelps is a collector of ancient religious texts and has a library of books about and by medieval- and reformation-era religious figures, which lends some support to these claims.[citation needed]


[edit] The Laramie Project

Phelps giving an interview about The Laramie Project in 2000.Many of Westboro's pickets revolve around the play The Laramie Project; Phelps constantly sends his followers across the country to picket every performance he finds out about.[17] [18] The play documents the reaction of the people of Laramie, Wyoming to the murder of Matthew Shepard.

The presumed reason for these protests is that Phelps is a character in the play and is portrayed negatively. Some of his ardent supporters claim that the play constitutes libel. Phelps himself says about his portrayal in the play: "They did not interview me, and portrayed me in a false light that amounts to defamatory misrepresentation."[citation needed] The play's authors state that all of Phelps' dialogue in the play is taken verbatim from his own sermons.[citation needed]

When the play was made into a movie by HBO, Phelps traveled to New York City to picket the HBO home offices with signs reading "United You'll Fall."[citation needed] Whenever Phelps sends picketers, he faxes a "review" to local newspapers for publishing; every review he sends is identical:[citation needed]

""The Laramie Project is a tawdry bit of banal fag melodrama - sordid, cheap, - without the least artistic or literary merit or unaffecting, drearily predictable redeeming social value.""[19]

[edit] Political views
Phelps' stated political views and activities are primarily driven by his anti-homosexual beliefs. Phelps' voting registration in Kansas is Democratic. [citation needed]


[edit] Anti-gay
Phelps was the subject of nationwide controversy when his family proposed, in a referendum, the removal of workplace protection for homosexuals in Topeka.[citation needed] The measure was defeated, fifty three percent to forty seven percent. Also in 2005, Phelps' granddaughter Jael was an unsuccessful candidate for Topeka's City Council; Jael was seeking to replace Tiffany Muller, the first openly gay member of the Topeka City Council.[20]

On the Westboro website godhatessweden.com, Phelps declares the heavy Swedish losses in the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake, initially calculated (exaggeratedly) at 20,000, to be God's punishment of Sweden for the prosecution of ?ke Green and depicts a granite monument designed by himself to Green as a Christian martyr, announcing plans to erect copies of it throughout the U.S. In response, Green has called Phelps "appalling" and "extremely unpleasant" [21], stressing that while Phelps proclaims hatred for homosexuals and condemns them to Hell, Green hopes for them to repent and go to Heaven.[citation needed] Furious, Phelps then renounced Green as a traitor and an ingrate.


[edit] Democratic Party
Phelps has run in various Kansas Democratic Party primaries in Kansas five times, but has never won. These included races for governor in 1990, 1994, and 1998, receiving about 15% of the vote in 1998.[22]


[edit] Support for Al Gore
The factual accuracy of this section is disputed.

Please see the relevant discussion on the talk page.

According to FrontPageMag.com, a conservative online political site, Phelps supported Al Gore in the 1988 and 1992 elections.[23] In his 1984 Senate race, Gore opposed a "gay bill of rights" and stated that homosexuality was not a choice that "society should affirm".[24] Phelps has stated that he supported Gore because of these earlier comments.[citation needed] According to Phelps, members of the Westboro Baptist Church helped run Gore's 1988 campaign in Kansas. According to WorldNetDaily, another conservative online news site, Phelps has claimed he hosted a Gore fundraiser in his home attended by almost 500 people. Gore spokesman Dag Vega declined to comment; "We are not dignifying those stories with a response."[8][25][verification needed] According to the Georgia Log Cabin Republicans and Mother Jones magazine, Fred's son, Fred Phelps Jr. held a fundraiser, which Al and Tipper Gore attended, at his home in Topeka, and Fred, Jr. would have served as a Gore delegate to the 1988 Democratic National Convention.[26][8]


[edit] Opposition to Al Gore and Bill Clinton
Prior to Bill Clinton's second presidential campaign, Phelps and the Westboro church began to oppose Clinton and Gore because of the administration's support for gay rights. The entire Westboro congregation picketed a 1997 inaugural ball,.[27] denouncing Gore as a "famous fag pimp."[28] In 1998, Westboro picketed the funeral of Gore's father, screaming vulgarities at Gore and telling him "your dad's in Hell."[28]

In the aftermath of the election, in an incident that would be repeated years later when Phelps circulated a fuzzy petition to outlaw homosexual work protection, many of the Kansas Democrats who had cast votes for Phelps came forward to express their distaste for him. They claimed that Phelps had lied about his intentions to numerous constituents, using double-talk and fuzzy language to confuse them; neglected to mention his stances on race, religion, and homosexuality, and campaigned mainly on the platform of a "good ol' boy" Southern gentleman and retired lawyer unfairly prosecuted by the system.[29]


[edit] Fidel Castro
Phelps has repeatedly championed Fidel Castro for Castro's stance against homosexuality; in 1998 Harper's magazine published a letter Phelps sent to Castro in which he praised Castro and lambasted the U.S. In 2004, when a pro-homosexual Cuban refugee announced plans to travel to Cuba, Phelps sent another letter to Castro "warning" him of the man's plans and requesting travel visas for a group of WBC congregants so that they could follow the refugee around Havana with signs bearing anti-U.S. and anti-homosexual slogans. Castro also ignored that appeal.[citation needed]


[edit] Saddam Hussein
In 2003, before the fall of Saddam Hussein during the Iraq War, Phelps wrote Hussein a letter praising his regime for being, in his opinion, "the only Muslim state that allows the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ to be freely and openly preached on the streets."[30] Furthermore, he stated that he would like to send a delegation to Baghdad to "preach the Gospel" for one week. Hussein granted permission, and a group of WBC congregants traveled to Iraq to protest against the U.S. The parishioners stood on the streets of Baghdad and heavily patronized Baghdad establishments holding signs condemning Bill and Hillary Clinton and anal sex.[31]


[edit] Criminal record

[edit] United States
Phelps was first arrested in 1951 and found guilty of misdemeanor battery after attacking a Pasadena police officer. He has since been arrested for assault, battery, threats, trespassing, disorderly conduct, contempt of court, and several other charges; each time, he (along with Westboro and its other members) has filed suit against the city, the police, and the arresting officers. Though he has been able to avoid prison time, he has been convicted more than once:[32][33][34]

1994: Contempt of court[32]
1994: Two counts of assault (reduced to disorderly conduct on appeal)[33]
Phelps' 1993 convictions stemmed from a raid on the offices of his family's lawfirm, "Phelps Chartered," in which $37,000 worth of equipment was seized as evidence. Phelps later sued the city of Topeka for seizing the equipment and won $43,000 in damages. By the time an appeals court overturned the ruling, the statute of limitations had expired and Phelps was allowed to keep the money.[citation needed]

Phelps' 1995 conviction for assault and battery carried a five-year prison sentence, with a mandatory 18 months to be served before he became eligible for parole. Phelps fought to be allowed to remain free until his appeals process went through. Days away from being arrested and sent to prison, a judge ruled that Phelps had been denied a speedy trial and that he was not required to serve any time.[33][34]

In December 1996, in the wake of Fred Phelps' assault and battery conviction, two Topeka police officers came forward claiming that then-police chief Beavers had, in 1993, enacted a "no-arrest" policy that actively ignored complaints against Phelps and WBC members unless they were blatantly physically violent and/or witnessed by several persons. Beavers was quoted as saying:[citation needed]

The Phelpses are not going to live in my house. Don't these officers know the Phelpses can sue us and take our houses? Commander, do you understand my order?
An investigation was launched by the City of Topeka and the Topeka Sheriff's department in 1996. It was determined that Chief Beavers had been allowing Phelps and WBC protesters to commit crimes without arrest, and that Phelps and WBC members had taken advantage of their knowledge of the policy by becoming more abusive towards Topeka citizens; in following years, Topeka citizens formed a loose support group on the Topeka Capital-Journal message board recalling abuse they had suffered from Westboro members during this period, which included threats of sexual assault to women and children; some claimed that they had caught members of Westboro going through their garbage looking for personal information to use against them. Following the findings of the city and Sheriff's office, Beavers was asked to resign, and his successor immediately repealed the "no arrest" policy.[citation needed]


[edit] Canada
On one occasion, Phelps and his congregation had their signs confiscated by customs, and responded by going to the federal capital and burning and spitting on the Canadian flag, and threatening to urinate and defecate on it. Since that time, Canada has passed hate crime legislation, alternatingly referred to by the informal "Fred Phelps Law" and "Jack Chick Law."[citation needed] Phelps has also claimed that his congregation, along with him, have been arrested in Canada for hate speech.[35] Should Phelps ever try to enter Canada again, he would be arrested and tried for violation of hate crime laws, a fact which prompted the founding of "Godhatescanada.com."[citation needed] He has also strongly opposed the legalization of same-sex marriage in Canada and Canada's Supreme Court.


[edit] People targeted by Fred Phelps
Main article: Targets of Westboro Baptist Church
Since the early 1990s, Phelps has targeted several individuals and groups in the public eye for criticism by the Westboro Baptist Church after their deaths. Prominent examples include President Ronald Reagan, Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist, National Football League star Reggie White, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, murdered college student Matthew Shepard, the late children's television host Fred Rogers, Jews, Catholics, Scandinavians and US soldiers killed in Iraq. He has also targeted Joseph Estabrook School in Lexington, Massachusetts.

Shirley Phelps, a daughter of Fred Phelps, appeared on Fox News, defending the WBC and attacking homosexuality.[7] Elsewhere and more recently, the miners who died in the 2006 Sago Mine disaster and the late Coretta Scott King have been targeted by Phelps and the WBC.[citation needed] The groups and individuals are attacked for being homosexual, supporting homosexuality, failing to condemn homosexuality and/or Judaism and Catholicism or their deaths are suggested to be caused by God as punishment for the USA's tolerance for homosexuals.[citation needed]

In a recent video sermon, Phelps targeted comedians Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, claiming that they are among the "scoffers and mockers" referred to in the Bible, and used them as evidence that we are in the "last of the Last Days." He was particularly critical of Colbert's Emmy Awards show performance, in which Colbert, tongue-in-cheek, called the Hollywood audience "Godless sodomites."[36] He compared Colbert's comments to the "blaspheming comics" of Sodom and Gomorrah and referred to both Colbert and Stewart as "sacrilegious buffoons."

Phelps' followers have repeatedly protested the University of Kansas School of Law's graduation ceremonies.


[edit] Proposed bans
On May 24, 2006, the United States House and Senate passed bills which would ban protests at military funerals in national (on Federal Land) cemeteries. The Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act would bar protests within 300 feet of the entrance of a cemetery and within 150 feet of a road into the cemetery from 60 minutes before to 60 minutes after a funeral. Those violating the act would face up to a $100,000 fine and up to a year in prison. But, as it only applies to Federal cemeteries, it has little effect on the protests. [37] This bill was signed by President Bush on Memorial Day, 2006.

As of April 2006, at least seventeen states are either considering bans on protests near funeral sites immediately before and after the ceremonies, or have already banned them. These states are: Illinois,[38] Indiana,[39] Iowa,[citation needed] Kansas,[40] Kentucky,[41] Louisiana,[42] Maryland,[43]Michigan,[44] Missouri,[45] which passed the law, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma,[46] South Carolina,[47] South Dakota, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.[48] These bans are in response to the God Hates Fags rallies of Phelps near the places where funerals of US soldiers killed in Iraq are taking place.[citation needed] These bans seem almost certain to pass; however, their constitutional validity has not yet been tested in the courts. Florida has recently passed legislation making "willful disruption" of a military funeral a first-class misdemeanor.[citation needed]

On May 1, 2006, Phelps supporter Bart McQueary filed a lawsuit in federal court challenging the ban in Kentucky.[49]

The American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit in Missouri on behalf of Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church, to get the ban on picketing of soldier's funerals overturned.[50] The ACLU of Ohio also filed a similar lawsuit.

On September 26, 2006, a federal judge ruled that the Kentucky law was unconstitutional and entered an injunction prohibiting it from being enforced.[51]


[edit] Patriot Guard Riders
To counter the Phelps' protests at funerals of soldiers, a group of motorcycle riders has formed the Patriot Guard Riders to provide a nonviolent, volunteer buffer between the protesters and mourners.


[edit] Other measures to discourage funeral protests
On May 17, 2006 Illinois Gov. Blagojevich signed the ?Let Them Rest in Peace Act? allowing families to peacefully grieve fallen soldiers. The new law makes protesting within 200 feet of a funeral or memorial service a crime.[52]

On June 5, 2006, Albert Snyder, the father of Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder, who was killed in the line of duty on March 3, 2006, and whose funeral was picketed by Phelps, sued Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church, Inc., in the U.S. District Court in Maryland, for defamation, invasion of privacy, and intentional infliction of emotional distress. The lawsuit also involves accusations made on Phelps's websites that Mr. and Mrs. Snyder "raised [Matthew] for the devil" and taught him "to defy his Creator, to divorce, and to commit adultery".[53]


[edit] Legitimacy
Because of his activism, some have speculated whether Phelps might be an elaborate prankster or agent provocateur. Such speculation has come from across the spectrum, both from conservatives who find him to be too much of a caricature of their arguments regarding the religious right and liberals who believe he must be consciously trying to discredit social conservatives:[54]

The group is so outrageous that some among the extreme-right have speculated that Phelps is a plant aimed at giving the anti-gay movement a bad name, said Mark Potok, the director of the intelligence project at the Southern Poverty Law Center which tracks hate crimes.
This belief, however, is not limited to the "extreme right." Libertarian author Keith R. Wood originally suggested, in a column in 2004, that Phelps is being sponsored to give Christians a bad name. This theory has been repeated elsewhere since then. Such claims, however, have been contradicted by claims of Phelps' estranged children who have argued their father's beliefs are very real.[55]
 
absolutely, he is a lunatic, not even close to being a true Christian, God would never approve of this man's doings
 
goes4ever said:
absolutely, he is a lunatic, not even close to being a true Christian, God would never approve of this man's doings

Finally we agree on something in this thread lol. I really can't understand anyone that would condone what he does.
 
Now we are starting to make some progress lol. I'll get you 2 seeing things my way if I try hard enough.
 

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